Lit 12 - Jan. 14 - Fishbowl

Familial Relations

-relationship between Hamlet and his mother "Has thou forgot me" (III iv)

• Hamlet upset at Claudius - not just for him killing his father

• Hamlet and Gertrude - usually positive (she knows which one is Guildenstern and which one is Rosencrantz -also understands why he's mourning)

-What would happen if Polonius did not instruct Ophelia to shut Hamlet out

Fathers and daughters

Mothers and sons

-Fortinbras and his father and uncle

-Laertes and Polonius

-Hamlet and his father/Claudius

Parallels

• Laertes doesn't treat Polonius seriously/ Polonius doesn't trust Laertes

• Fortinbras and Laertes are go-getters

-conflict between Claudius and Hamlet starts the whole play - brother kills brother - mother marries uncle - family politics - can we draw any parallels to our own lives?

-do people hurt the ones they love more than anyone else?

 - Do the parents act in their children's best interest?

-Gertrude ends up siding with Claudius ("but not by him" IV v)

Loyalty - should a mother side with her husband or her son?

-could focus on Gertrude

-loyalties and family and one character focus

-protective fathers

• Gertrude says Ophelia could have been her daughter-in-law - huge dramatic irony

-examples of Claudius and Hamlet's relationship - he married his mom, took his crown, killed his father - Hamlet doesn't mention the fact that Claudius took his crown until his final soliloquy in IV - meanwhile Fortinbras reacted immediately as discussed in Act I

• Is Gertrude a bad mother?  (she didn't know about Claudius murdering her husband)

• Incest - it's mentioned many times that Gertrude marrying Claudius is incestuous - it's implied that Hamlet is having a bordering-on incestuous relationship with his mother "enseamed" - 2 of his soliloquies mention intimate ideas about Claudius and Gertrude

-Hamlet and Gertrude

-bad parenting

-compare different father-son relationships

-family contributes to Hamlet's success/feelings

-Polonius and his family

-Hamlet and Claudius + motivation

Action vs. Inaction

• Is Hamlet a coward, or is he a good strategist (could have killed Claudius when praying) - but he believes he would send Claudius to Heaven (III iii)

• "Just Lather That's All" - being passive isn't really heroic

• Wouldn't a king need to commit to an action?

• Could Hamlet be a king?

• IV iv  "three parts coward" (41-46)

• Claudius acts on his own - ends up dying

• Fortinbras is active - wants to fight for a "piece of straw," "sharks up a list of resolutes," ends up the leader of Denmark

• Hamlet and Laertes - neither pays off

• Are Laertes and Fortinbras very different ?(Laertes does not have the status)

• Could compare Macbeth to Hamlet - do we want leaders who commit rash actions or , like Fortinbras just fight for fighting's sake (America)

• Actions often committed off-stage and not from the protagonist's actions
• Why does Hamlet act so differently when he kills Polonius (worked up - wants to kill Claudius while Claudius is praying - also thinks Claudius is spying - he wanted to kill him "in his sty" (III iii)

• In the end, Hamlet kills Claudius, (indirectly, Ophelia), Laertes, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern - is the ghost from the devil?

• Should a son avenge his father's death (murder)

• Is killing ever morally right?

• Inaction causes the progression of the play

• Is Hamlet unlikeable because of his inaction?

• Should Hamlet have killed Claudius?  When?

• Morality and Hamlet - see soliloquies
• Why doesn't Hamlet kill Claudius earlier?

• Is Hamlet a sympathetic character?  Do you like him?  Which other protagonists can you compare him to?  Is he really like the barber in "Just Lather, That's All"?

• Gertrude's action has to go through the men - Claudius and Hamlet

• Is madness a form of action? Or the opposite?

-if Hamlet acted more quickly - people would not have clued in

Topics:

• Hamlet and Laertes and comparisons

• Hamlet's madness - ties in with indecisive behaviour

• Ophelia and Hamlet and motivation

• Hamlet success or lack of success
• H's inaction works with the plot framework and how it works as a device

• Ham, Laertes and Fortinbras

Morality

• Is murder ever morally justifiable?

• Is revenge every morally justifiable?

• What kind of revenge (could just be bad talking someone)

• Legal system - death penalty - Canada - murder is not justifiable

• In actual Denmark - pagan (but Shakespeare secretly ascribes to 17th century English morals and values)

• Jared would like to point out that 11th century Denmark was actually Catholic
• Is war justifiable?  - the law would say "yes"

• "revenge his foul and unnatural murder"  I v (said by the king)

• What is the inciting incident which caused the murders in this play?

• Catholic church sees the marriage as incest

• Look at Hamlet's soliloquies in order to see his morals "conscience doth make cowards of us all" (III i)

• Did Hamlet jump to conclusions too early?  Couldn't he have convinced the public (like Laertes and Fortinbras) what's the rush?
• Wouldn't the court system (such as it was) take care of Claudius if the truth came out - nowadays we could trust the system?
• Which characters are moral and immoral (again we can compare to Macbeth)

• Hamlet's first killing (Polonius) - lost his moral compass also perhaps really is insane at this moment - choking his mother - seeing the ghost)

• Ghost asking Hamlet to "avenge his death" - not moral much like Macbeth being beholden to and trusting the "instruments of darkness"

• Is "madness poor Hamlet's enemy"? (V ii 245)

• How could you reference Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead?

• Quotes, quotes, quotes!

• What about Gertrude's morals?

• What about Ophelia's?

• Is Gertrude and Claudius' marriage morally wrong (2 months after old Hamlet's death)

• Claudius' morality

• Gertrude goes against what's right - she's been told that her current husband killed her late husband ("o'er hasty marriage" Act I)

• Self interest vs. what's best for society (Macbeth vs. Hamlet)

• Is Hamlet self-interested?   Is his concern ("to be or not to be") selfish?  Is it true that "no one deserves to be made a murderer" as the barber says

• Or is it that "killing isn't easy"

Topics

-Hamlet's inciting incident

-Hamlet's morals are altered by the events around him

-Moral decisions lead to Hamlet's death

-tragic events caused by Hamlet's immoral tendencies or madness

-Death of significant family members causal relationship

-compare Hamlet and Macbeth

-whether or not revenge is moral or immoral

-killing Claudius - moral issues

-Hamlet's choices moral or immoral?