Eng 11 - block 1 fishbowls

Betrayal and Loyalty

 

-Macdonwald - traitor - foreshadows ending of play

-Thane murdering king - especially significant - Thane betrays his own country and self

-Lady doesn't betray anyone actually - stands by her husband through to the end (think of the banquet scene)

-Macduff - loyal or a traitor?

-major attribute in Thane's character - ambition ("art not without ambition…but without the illness to attend to it" I v)

-"lesser than Macbeth, but greater" I iii - refers to Banquo - he's lesser in status, but greater because he doesn't betray any of his belief systems

-what is betrayal and loyalty?

-betray your comrades but not yourself? - is this disloyalty?

-how is betrayal moral? Can this topic be combined with ambition and morality - pick a narrow theme

-can you find an outside quote that would be a good thesis for your argument?

-can you focus on just one character?  Could you contrast characters (what if you compared the Lady and the Thane?)

-what about Lennox

-The Thane sets up a reason for people to betray them - he's not the rightful king - the country feels he's a "usurper"

-how much trust is too much trust?  Duncan "he was a gentleman on whom I had an absolute trust" (I iv 11-14) - this led to his downfall

-to get into power - the Thane brought upon his own downfall

-Lady says "look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under it" (I vii)

-Lady actually acts like Eve in the Garden of Eden - convinces her husband to kill (commit a sin) after Satan (the witches) suggest it

-Macduff betrays for the sake of the country

-topic - self vs. common good

"Thou hast it all, king, Cawdor, all and I fear thou play'dst most foully for it" (III i)

Banquo still stays loyal to the Thane - then he's murdered - too much trust (like Duncan)

-what about Thane's trust in "the juggling fiends"(V viii)

-look at discussion between the boy and his mother in IV ii - the son defends his father and doesn't think he's a traitor

-Macduff shows loyalty to the people of Scotland when he convinces England to help Scotland

-Thane kills Duncan in own house - look at the Thane's reasons for not killing Duncan in I vii - he betrays himself

 

Morality

 

• Lady convinces her husband to kill Duncan - she makes a bad decision and the murder is on her conscience

• Insanity ensues
• The Thane knows right from wrong - orders the Macduff family
• Consequences of making immoral decisions
• Both feel guilt

• Lady thinks the "a little water clears us of this deed" (II ii)

• The Thane says "I have forgot the taste of fears" (V iii)
• The witches never tell him to kill the king - not just ambition
• The Thane did not need to kill the guards - or Banquo - or Macduff's family- Banquo was going to be loyal to him, the Macduff family actually thought it was Macduff who was disloyal
• Does sin beget sin?
• Is it easier to commit a sin the second time (staying out late, skipping class, shoplifting?)
• What is the Thane's moral code?  What about the Lady?
• Not all acts of immorality end in tragedy

• The Scottish Play shows us retribution

• Is morality formed by society or individuals?
• Different cultures have different moral codes

• ON THE BATTLEFIELD, KILLING SEEMS FINE

• Ethics - society      morals - individuality
• Self motivated killing = wrong
• Killing for society?
• How is the Thane shaped by "unseeming [people] from nave to chaps" I ii

• In the beginning, the Thane is seen as a hero - what is the difference

• The Lady kills herself - obviously felt guilty  (her remorse was not "stopped up") I v

• "I'm afraid to look at what I've done, look at it again I dare not" II ii, the Thane knows he's committed a sin

• Macduff is loyal to Scotland, king Duncan and Malcolm

-what about listening to "instruments of darkness" (I iii)

-is Macduff moral?

-what is morality?

-Macduff kills the Thane - is this moral?

-"sinful Macduff, they were all killed for thee, not for their own demerits" (IViii)

• Today, what is the consequence of having a lack of morals? - court system, some places - the death penalty - but lots of CEOs are psychopaths - but do we consider them criminals?  Stock market?  Finding a really cheap item at a garage sale and then reselling it for thousands - is that moral? - not returning a found wallet stuffed with money?

• How important is it to take responsibility and show remorse for committing crimes/sinning

 

Ambition

 

• Is the ambition to become king already there?  Act I iii he admits that he has  harboured ambition: look at lines 128-141
• Would the Thane have killed Duncan if it weren't for the Lady?

• He does have his own volition - but in the end it was his decision

• Key - look at his reaction to "The Prince of Cumberland!  That is a step I must o'erleap or else" (I iv)

• Gets cocky after the second visit to the witches "I bear a charmed life" V viii
• Is Malcolm ambitious?  (he has to be convinced to come back to Scotland IV iii)
• What about Macduff?
• What does it mean to be ambitious?
• What's the difference between Malcolm and the Thane?  -Malcolm was next in line for the throne - he is reinstated and the natural order is restored
• The Thane wants the power?  Why?

• Macduff wants Malcolm to be king because he's the rightful heir to the throne

• When the Lady sleepwalks - she admits her guilt
• When the Thane sees Banquo he thinks it's inconvenient
• Both blinded by their own ambition for power
• Could combine this topic with other themes - what about power?  The supernatural, fate
• V v - "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow" - feels real regret about how terrible life is

• Right away the Thane says, "after life's fitful fever [Duncan] sleeps well" III ii

• Characters do not enjoy their ill gotten gains
• Eg. Kids who cheat in school don't feel good about grades
• Ambition overthrows morality - but then not enjoyable life
• "no spurs to prick the sides of my intent"
• What symbols represent ambition?  - the dagger - blood

• Too much ambition - the Thane

• Macduff sees morality as higher than his ambition

• Is ambition selfish?

• Does ambition cause people to become greedy?  (How much is too much?  - think of wealth - how many houses, how much power?)
• What does the Thane have in the end?